Post by B5Erik on Aug 1, 2015 0:31:29 GMT
While Marvel Comics was fighting to remain solvent in the 1990's, Fox bought the rights to the Fantastic Four - Marvel's groundbreaking team that ushered in the Marvel Age of Comics in 1961. They got the rights for a song, but didn't get a movie made and released until 2005.
It was a flawed movie, handed to a less than stellar director (Tim Story), but it had a team that was easily recognizable as The Fantastic Four as created by Stan 'The Man' Lee and Jack 'King' Kirby. There was potential for a really good sequel. And the sequel was, indeed, better than the first movie. Rise of the Silver Surfer was fun and did a fairly good job of capturing the spirit of the original comic book. It was still flawed, and was again directed by Tim Story, but it was a clear improvement over the first movie.
The biggest flaw in Story's FF movies was Victor Von Doom, aka Doctor Doom. He became a part of the space mission that gave the Fantastic Four their powers. Instead of being a brilliant scientist and engineer, he was a businessman with a solid grasp of science. Instead of creating a suit of armor loaded with weaponry that gave him superhuman strength and the ability to fly Victor Von Doom became mutated by cosmic radiation and had the power of electricity and magnetism (as well as a magnetic skin). The personality of Von Doom was also more akin to that of a reality show diva than the megalomaniacal, Machiavellian Doctor Doom of the comics. He was annoying rather than compelling.
The other main flaw with the first two Fantastic Four movies was the characterization of Reed Richards, the leader of the Fantastic Four. Where in the comics Reed is a strong leader who had confidence that almost matched his elite intellect, in the Tim Story movies Reed was socially awkward and lacked confidence. That improved in the second movie where Reed got a scene where he showed an equal amount of confidence and intelligence.
Sue Storm was miscast, but not horribly so. Jessica Alba did a decent job as Reed's girlfriend, and Chris Evans (the future Captain America) did a great job as the brash, self-centered Johnny Storm (aka The Human Torch). Michael Chiklis was outstanding as Ben Grimm, and he really nailed the heart of the original character.
With the improvement from the first movie to the second movie (which was still not among the best Comic Book Superhero movies), Fox might have been best served to keep the cast of the FF intact (with Ioan Gruffud showing real potential to become Lee and Kirby's Reed Richards, given a better script), but instead they paused the series and later decided to reboot.
Which wouldn't necessarily have been a bad thing - had they gone back to the original source material to see where the Tim Story movies went wrong. (Let's face it, on top of all it's other flaws the first FF movie committed the cardinal sin of being a little boring and understated.)
But they didn't.
Instead the hired a, "Hotshot," director who had only one movie to his credit, and he and the movie's screenwriters decided to blow up the original concept and to film their own vision of the famous foursome.
It would be a very different version of the Fantastic Four. First, they would ALL be young (early 20's). Second, Johnny Storm would be black, and Sue would be adopted by his father. Third, Ben Grimm would be a puny guy lacking in confidence instead of a big football star.
Then it wouldn't be cosmic radiation that changes them during a space mission. This time it would be an interdimensional transportation deal that gives them their powers. Oh, and The Thing would be naked. (Really???) The rumored changes to Doctor Doom have yet to be confirmed, but if they're even half as bad as the stories (and half as bad as his visual design as Doctor Doom) have them then that will be yet another nail in this movie's coffin.
In the comics, Doctor Doom is basically Tony Stark's evil, megalomaniacal counterpart. Doctor Doom is literally the dark side version of Iron Man. Pardon me - but isn't Iron Man the most popular superhero character in the Marvel Cinematic Universe? And wouldn't having an evil Iron Man be great for the box office numbers?
Yep, sure would be. But instead of going with the source material and making a great Fantastic Four movie, Fox and Josh Trank decided to make Fantastic Four 90210.
And let's look at The Thing. In the original Lee/Kirby FF Ben Grimm is a big football star. Big physically, and a big man on campus socially because he is a star player. He gets all the girls he wants. He's not the brightest guy, but he's honorable and loyal. And when he's turned into a monster it's that much more poignant because he goes from being the guy that all the other guys want to be, and the guy that all the girls want to date, to being a hideous monster.
The new Ben Grimm is a little loser, more or less. Little in stature and a loser socially. So he's made big and strong. It's a totally different - and much less meaningful - dynamic. He can actually enjoy being The Thing because he's given power for the first time. Unlike the real Ben Grimm he doesn't really have anything taken away (well, except his genitals and an exit for his digestive tract - I guess he not only doesn't need clothes in the movie but he doesn't need to eat or drink, either).
This version of Ben Grimm/The Thing is much weaker and less meaningful than the original. In the original there is a sadness to Ben Grimm once he becomes The Thing. In this one there is joy and celebration over being big and powerful. Maybe he's unhappy about how he looks, but as director Josh Trank put it it's the first time he's ever been big or powerful so he can appreciate it more than the original version of Ben Grimm. It's all wrong. And that's just one of the many things Trank got wrong with this movie.
Fox's failures with the Fantastic Four continue to mount.
Marvel attempted to buy back the rights after the second Tim Story movie became a minor disappointment at the box office, but Fox wouldn't sell. Marvel most certainly would have gotten the concept right. Fox continues to fumble the ball. The ill will between Fox and Marvel/Disney has grown to the point where Marvel cancelled the Fantastic Four comic book, and has removed not only the Fantastic Four but also the X-Men from most of their merchandising (including posters, notebooks, etc).
Now it's just a pissing match between Fox and Marvel, and Fox refuses both to give the fans what they want, and to sell the rights back to Marvel (who would likely give those fans the movie they've wanted to see for so long).
Just how many box office disappointments it will take before Fox finally relents and either makes a great, faithful Fantastic Four movie or sells the rights back to Marvel is an as yet unanswered question. There's no way to know just how much failure it will take for Fox to either hire more talented writers and direcors who can do the FF right, or just sell the rights back to Marvel. Hopefully it doesn't take another couple of decades before they finally do one of the two right things that can be done with this franchise.
It was a flawed movie, handed to a less than stellar director (Tim Story), but it had a team that was easily recognizable as The Fantastic Four as created by Stan 'The Man' Lee and Jack 'King' Kirby. There was potential for a really good sequel. And the sequel was, indeed, better than the first movie. Rise of the Silver Surfer was fun and did a fairly good job of capturing the spirit of the original comic book. It was still flawed, and was again directed by Tim Story, but it was a clear improvement over the first movie.
The biggest flaw in Story's FF movies was Victor Von Doom, aka Doctor Doom. He became a part of the space mission that gave the Fantastic Four their powers. Instead of being a brilliant scientist and engineer, he was a businessman with a solid grasp of science. Instead of creating a suit of armor loaded with weaponry that gave him superhuman strength and the ability to fly Victor Von Doom became mutated by cosmic radiation and had the power of electricity and magnetism (as well as a magnetic skin). The personality of Von Doom was also more akin to that of a reality show diva than the megalomaniacal, Machiavellian Doctor Doom of the comics. He was annoying rather than compelling.
The other main flaw with the first two Fantastic Four movies was the characterization of Reed Richards, the leader of the Fantastic Four. Where in the comics Reed is a strong leader who had confidence that almost matched his elite intellect, in the Tim Story movies Reed was socially awkward and lacked confidence. That improved in the second movie where Reed got a scene where he showed an equal amount of confidence and intelligence.
Sue Storm was miscast, but not horribly so. Jessica Alba did a decent job as Reed's girlfriend, and Chris Evans (the future Captain America) did a great job as the brash, self-centered Johnny Storm (aka The Human Torch). Michael Chiklis was outstanding as Ben Grimm, and he really nailed the heart of the original character.
With the improvement from the first movie to the second movie (which was still not among the best Comic Book Superhero movies), Fox might have been best served to keep the cast of the FF intact (with Ioan Gruffud showing real potential to become Lee and Kirby's Reed Richards, given a better script), but instead they paused the series and later decided to reboot.
Which wouldn't necessarily have been a bad thing - had they gone back to the original source material to see where the Tim Story movies went wrong. (Let's face it, on top of all it's other flaws the first FF movie committed the cardinal sin of being a little boring and understated.)
But they didn't.
Instead the hired a, "Hotshot," director who had only one movie to his credit, and he and the movie's screenwriters decided to blow up the original concept and to film their own vision of the famous foursome.
It would be a very different version of the Fantastic Four. First, they would ALL be young (early 20's). Second, Johnny Storm would be black, and Sue would be adopted by his father. Third, Ben Grimm would be a puny guy lacking in confidence instead of a big football star.
Then it wouldn't be cosmic radiation that changes them during a space mission. This time it would be an interdimensional transportation deal that gives them their powers. Oh, and The Thing would be naked. (Really???) The rumored changes to Doctor Doom have yet to be confirmed, but if they're even half as bad as the stories (and half as bad as his visual design as Doctor Doom) have them then that will be yet another nail in this movie's coffin.
In the comics, Doctor Doom is basically Tony Stark's evil, megalomaniacal counterpart. Doctor Doom is literally the dark side version of Iron Man. Pardon me - but isn't Iron Man the most popular superhero character in the Marvel Cinematic Universe? And wouldn't having an evil Iron Man be great for the box office numbers?
Yep, sure would be. But instead of going with the source material and making a great Fantastic Four movie, Fox and Josh Trank decided to make Fantastic Four 90210.
And let's look at The Thing. In the original Lee/Kirby FF Ben Grimm is a big football star. Big physically, and a big man on campus socially because he is a star player. He gets all the girls he wants. He's not the brightest guy, but he's honorable and loyal. And when he's turned into a monster it's that much more poignant because he goes from being the guy that all the other guys want to be, and the guy that all the girls want to date, to being a hideous monster.
The new Ben Grimm is a little loser, more or less. Little in stature and a loser socially. So he's made big and strong. It's a totally different - and much less meaningful - dynamic. He can actually enjoy being The Thing because he's given power for the first time. Unlike the real Ben Grimm he doesn't really have anything taken away (well, except his genitals and an exit for his digestive tract - I guess he not only doesn't need clothes in the movie but he doesn't need to eat or drink, either).
This version of Ben Grimm/The Thing is much weaker and less meaningful than the original. In the original there is a sadness to Ben Grimm once he becomes The Thing. In this one there is joy and celebration over being big and powerful. Maybe he's unhappy about how he looks, but as director Josh Trank put it it's the first time he's ever been big or powerful so he can appreciate it more than the original version of Ben Grimm. It's all wrong. And that's just one of the many things Trank got wrong with this movie.
Fox's failures with the Fantastic Four continue to mount.
Marvel attempted to buy back the rights after the second Tim Story movie became a minor disappointment at the box office, but Fox wouldn't sell. Marvel most certainly would have gotten the concept right. Fox continues to fumble the ball. The ill will between Fox and Marvel/Disney has grown to the point where Marvel cancelled the Fantastic Four comic book, and has removed not only the Fantastic Four but also the X-Men from most of their merchandising (including posters, notebooks, etc).
Now it's just a pissing match between Fox and Marvel, and Fox refuses both to give the fans what they want, and to sell the rights back to Marvel (who would likely give those fans the movie they've wanted to see for so long).
Just how many box office disappointments it will take before Fox finally relents and either makes a great, faithful Fantastic Four movie or sells the rights back to Marvel is an as yet unanswered question. There's no way to know just how much failure it will take for Fox to either hire more talented writers and direcors who can do the FF right, or just sell the rights back to Marvel. Hopefully it doesn't take another couple of decades before they finally do one of the two right things that can be done with this franchise.
